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Important - sending anonymous information via LIVE services


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Here is the information located in the sub Menu "Me and my device"  - "My information" - "More info" on a Via Live 120 device. I think its quite important that all users of LIVE devices (Sim card embedded) can read it here.  It states: "Only if you give us your permission, your navigation device will continously collect information and send it to TomTom at regular intervals.  The information is also stored on your device until you connect it to your PC, then the information is sent to TomTom and deleted from your device.  The information includes details that identify the navigation device, your MyTomTom account name and information entered while you were using the navigation device. TomTom uses this information to be able to deliver LIVE services to you and to improve the HD Traffic service. Within 20 minutes of switching off your navigation system, TomTom automatically and irreversibly destroys any data that allows identification of you or your device.  This, now anonymous, information is used to improve TomTom's products and services, such as maps, reports on Points of Interest and average speeds driven.  These products and services are also used by government agencies and businesses. Using your navigation system, you can join the Mapshare Community or report speed cameras.  If you choose to use either of these services, your reports, that include location information, are sent to TomTom and kept together with your MyTomTom account.  TomTom then uses your information to improve its maps and speed cameras. If you no longer allow sharing of information, none of the above information is sent to TomTom and information previously stored on your device is deleted.  You won't be able to recieve HD Traffic or mobile speed camera locations, or use any other LIVE services. TomTom will not give anyone else access to the information collected from your navigation system. In choosing to provide TomTom with information, you are helping to make driving better, specifically by improving maps, traffic flows and reducing congestion.  We appreciate your help. Note:  The length or end date of your service subscription does not change if you do not allow sharing of information. This navigation system uses a GSM network (the embedded sim card) that contains location information about your navigation system.  By law, the network operator may be required to retain this location and other information for law enforcement purposes and TomTom has no influence over this.  If you disable information sharing, the mobile network connection is not active and the network operator cannot store location information". If you think that your information is not being used for the purpose for which you have provided it to TomTom, contact us at http://tomtom.com/support See our privacy policy at http://tomtom.com/privacy
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Best answer by Lupus1 28 March 2012, 11:26

Hi,

addtionally I'll provide the information from another post I've just written on this board.

TT followed a change in European law so they have to notify customers about data being gathered. This was the same before the change of the law just it wasn't necessary to ask users whether they'd like to share that data or not.

The problem is that you need to share some data as without transferring certain data a connection cannot be built up at all. The provider needs the data to establish the connection between a SIM card and his servers. This is the same with your mobile phone.

Your units serial number, wireless ID number and the IP address being used to request Live data are not encrypted. All other facets of the communication, including your current location information and the details of your request, are encrypted on your unit before it is transmitted to the wireless carrier who will be handling your traffic. As noted above, your units wireless ID number must be available to the carrier in order to validate use of the carriers network, much like your cell phone must be identified to validate its use on a particular carriers system. Also it gets annonymized as soon as it reaches TT and this data gets deleted latest 20 minutes after the connection has been closed due to your device being turned off. The connection also gets interrupted automatically after 24 hours.

Due to EU law not differntiating between different types of personal data, a failure to share this data would provide no mechanism for TomTom to validate your account and return data to your device over the Live wireless link. Even Live data requests that would reveal nothing at all about your current location (e.g., asking for Yelp! advice in another city) require your units serial number to confirm your subscription to Live, and the current IP address of your device is necessary to know where to return the data to you.

In the event that you choose not to share in response to the question on your TomTom, the wireless modem in your TomTom device is shut down, making your location invisible even to the wireless carrier network (no signal from your unit to track). In the EU (and in some other countries), wireless carriers are legally required to retain base station information and to produce that information upon legal demand by authorities, and includes the location of devices in a call or with an active data connection. If your units modem is shut down, that assures that no data about your device's use or location can be stored by the wireless carrier (and those allowed to get it): it simply does not exist.

I hope this helps to explain the problems involved with this change in European law.

Regards

Lars.

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Userlevel 7
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Hi kieron,

thanks for posting that information here on the board as well. I too think it is important for users to know to what they are agreeing. I still think they should share their data as it is needed for further improvement of as well the HD Traffic service as the IQ Routes information.

Regards

Lars.
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Hi Kieron,

Thank you for sharing this here on the forum. I've created a short cut at the top of the board, so everybody has a chance to read it.

Thank you,
Ditte
See the thread I started here...

http://discussions.tomtom.com/t5/LIVE-Services-HD-Traffic-and/Tomtom-spying-on-us/td-p/159091

There should be an option to opt out of this, without losing the ability to use the Live services we've paid for!
but if everyone opted out there wouldnt be much of a service left. Its using this data that gives the live traffic its oomph. But tomtom have pushed the limits of what is acceptable to retrieve and use which hasnt helped.
Userlevel 7
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Even before the same data was collected and nobody could be bothered... As they say, if you didn't know, it couldn't hurt.
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@ LDT, this last part explains why the connection to LIVE services is not possible when opting out on the device.

"This navigation system uses a GSM network (the embedded sim card) that contains location information about your navigation system.  By law, the network operator may be required to retain this location and other information for law enforcement purposes and TomTom has no influence over this.  If you disable information sharing, the mobile network connection is not active and the network operator cannot store location information"
What right have tom tom to cut off services that have all ready been paid for I said no to the information being sent and was cut off even though I have paid in advance for maps and all other services why no offer of a refund what dose my tom tom now give me problems when trying to get my map updates I have agreed to send info but feel this is a gun being held at my head do as we say or tough lose what you paid for this should be explained fully before a device is sold to you not half way through your contract
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Hi,

Your TomTom device comes with an in built subscriber identification module or Sim card to you and me.  If you do not want your data shared this Sim card has to be prevented from connecting to the network, unfortunately this then makes it impossible for you to receive TomTom LIVE services.

We explain on the the microsite http://www.tomtom.com/en_gb/safeguarding-your-data/ how we use the data on the device and how it is encrypted and made anonymous so none of the information provided over the air can be traced back to you.

Opting out of data sharing does not prevent the download or installation of maps.

Kind Regards

Chris
Userlevel 7
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Hi,

addtionally I'll provide the information from another post I've just written on this board.

TT followed a change in European law so they have to notify customers about data being gathered. This was the same before the change of the law just it wasn't necessary to ask users whether they'd like to share that data or not.

The problem is that you need to share some data as without transferring certain data a connection cannot be built up at all. The provider needs the data to establish the connection between a SIM card and his servers. This is the same with your mobile phone.

Your units serial number, wireless ID number and the IP address being used to request Live data are not encrypted. All other facets of the communication, including your current location information and the details of your request, are encrypted on your unit before it is transmitted to the wireless carrier who will be handling your traffic. As noted above, your units wireless ID number must be available to the carrier in order to validate use of the carriers network, much like your cell phone must be identified to validate its use on a particular carriers system. Also it gets annonymized as soon as it reaches TT and this data gets deleted latest 20 minutes after the connection has been closed due to your device being turned off. The connection also gets interrupted automatically after 24 hours.

Due to EU law not differntiating between different types of personal data, a failure to share this data would provide no mechanism for TomTom to validate your account and return data to your device over the Live wireless link. Even Live data requests that would reveal nothing at all about your current location (e.g., asking for Yelp! advice in another city) require your units serial number to confirm your subscription to Live, and the current IP address of your device is necessary to know where to return the data to you.

In the event that you choose not to share in response to the question on your TomTom, the wireless modem in your TomTom device is shut down, making your location invisible even to the wireless carrier network (no signal from your unit to track). In the EU (and in some other countries), wireless carriers are legally required to retain base station information and to produce that information upon legal demand by authorities, and includes the location of devices in a call or with an active data connection. If your units modem is shut down, that assures that no data about your device's use or location can be stored by the wireless carrier (and those allowed to get it): it simply does not exist.

I hope this helps to explain the problems involved with this change in European law.

Regards

Lars.
MMMMMM is it a case of big brother following you?
Userlevel 7
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The only difference since there is a SIM card in the TT units is that now you can opt-out. The data was always collected and sent before, no difference. If you opt-out, the mobile network provider+TomTom won't allow you to use the LIVE services as it works back and forth.

If you want to receive more accurate traffic information, at least do a favour to others and opt-in. Nobody going to follow anyone.

I think if TT had the resources to follow anyone, they would have the whole planet covered (map wise) with 99.9% accuracy.

If the law enforcement want to follow you or track you, they will do it via your mobile phone, not your satnav. And the only way to opt-out of that is either airplane mode or switch it off. And not a single complaint about that anywhere.
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Many thanks for Lupus1's additional information regarding this posting and a good observation from Zsolt regarding mobile phones.

kieron wrote:

...Using your navigation system, you can join the Mapshare Community or report speed cameras...


This is the part I find interesting. When did mapshare start working?
Userlevel 7
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Hi,

MapShare was working as part that you could correct errors on your device from the beginning I think. Since the Navcore update to I think 11.030 your corrections are also being shared with TT but you still do not receive corrections. That is open for a future update but one in their back-end as far as I know as the problem lies with selecting the correct information to be send to the correct devices as that data varies depending on the device, the installed map and the version of that map.


Regards
Lars.
It says "join the mapshare community".

We can't do that with these devices.
Userlevel 7
Badge +2
Hi,

if you correct mistakes on your device you've already joined the community as you're sending corrections to TomTom that get also forwarded to NAV2 users that are entitled to MapShare corrections. Only receiving the information is not possible on NAV3 devices but still you're a part of the community by just sharing information.


Regards
Lars.
If I cannot make use of the mapshare changes, then I am not part of that "community": I am an unpad contributor to it.
Userlevel 7
Badge +3
You are part of it when it comes to a new map (if you have MUS or purchase a map).

Zsolt wrote:
You are part of it when it comes to a new map (if you have MUS or purchase a map).

No, you would be a paying customer that has contributed data for free.
Userlevel 7
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That's true. But I didn't state it otherwise 😉
Hi community,

little bit amused I am following this discussion from the distance.

You all have had no problems in giving personal datas from You and Your family for "special shopping cards" just to get a few percent more for a cheaper price.

You all have had no problems in adding Your personal datas in facebook or similar programmes.

Sine -ty years GCSHQ (Governmental Communication Services Head Quarter) in Sussex is watching Your phone calls and following You globally.  

If TomTom feels necessary to follow me or my route to the best address of Vienna sausages in down town, they shall do it, if they will correct the map due I have used a road they don't know.

Maybe I am little bit stupid, but, about what are You discussing ?

Servus 
TomTomista.

All of those things you mention you can avoid if you chose too. For example, I do not have a loyalty card. I do not like direct debits and being stuck in a 2 year contract, so I use an unregistered, disposable pay as you go phone which I change regularly. I do not use Facebook or post personal information about myself on the web. None of this because I'm paranoid, just that I have always been brought up to believe in "a need to know basis" If you don't need to know something about me, it's none of your business.

Anyway, my main cause of annoyance is that I have paid for Tomtom Live services and yet if I want to use it, I have to give away my personal information, which I was not told when I subscribed, and there is no way for me to get a refund.
Hallo LDT,

whatever You may be, You surely are not paranoid. You are just one of this fabulous minority trying to avoid a contact with big brother, but, believe in me, GCSHQ is monitoring Your calls. Also this mail text.

I fully understand You and Your arguments, but, frankly defined, I really cannot imagine, TomTom has engaged anyone "following" us by computer. Being an analyst it would be logic to me, some computers are checking all the datas whether there are routes, being not noted, showing suddenly more traffic than expected or calculated, showing traffic slams etc etc but surely no personal datas. At the moment - and according my last informations - the world is using more than 20 millions TomToms. If just 10 % are delivering datas we are discussing about, it means, they would have to check about more than 2 million datas daily. Or persons. Believe in me - being rather familiar in such jobs - they neither have the staff nor the equipment to do it. And finally, what should they do with these informations ? I can name You several institutions having collected these informations meanwhile, and, these companies seriously are not asking TomTom to sell them datas.

But, also answering Your point "annoyance", simply use a dummy name and address.

Servus

  
It's difficult to use a dummy name and address when you have to pay for your subscription using a credit card.
Good evening,

well, this is a discusssion board about nav sys, but, You may check Master Card Red.

Brgds

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